# Modular design? Any ideas on how to handle modules? **URL:** \ **Category:** General JUCE discussion\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602 "2013-06-13T10:43:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/1 "2013-06-13T10:43:16Z")
Guys, after a loooong period of inactivity, I´m back. So my next project will be a synth that allows open-source modular elements, like envelopes, filters, etc … I was hoping that each module would be a Juce Plugin, and polyphony would be handle by the number of audio ports or something like that. So, could I handle this with Juce? Any ideas on this? Just asking, since it doesn´t hurt, and I need all the help I can get. 😉 The whole project will be done with Juce, closed-source, BUT, the Modules will all be open-source. What kind of license I need to attach to those modules, stating that they can be re-used to make new modules, but not re-used for commercial apps? Best Regards, WilliamK ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/2 "2013-06-14T11:36:14Z")
So far I´m thinking on just using each module as a synth-plugin (vst?). But I was wondering on using modules like DLL files, but I wonder about cross-platforms in the future, that´s why VST (or whatever) seems like a better idea, thanks to Juce cross-platform plugin scheme. The problem is polyphonic parameters. For example, a filter could have multiple parameters per voice. So, maybe I will need to do this in some other way. Any ideas? Wk ---
**Author:** ![chkn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/forum.juce.com/chkn/32/3862_2.png) [@chkn](https://forum.juce.com/u/chkn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/3 "2013-06-14T12:39:08Z")
this are too many questions in one. it seems you have to make some conceptual work first. > [@](#): > > The problem is polyphonic parameters. - one plugin instance per voice? (so they can me monophonic) > [@](#): > > stating that they can be re-used to make new modules, but not re-used for commercial apps? well if they use juce, they have to use licenses which juce provide (but even GPL doesn’t prevent commercial use) ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/4 "2013-06-14T12:57:07Z")
Thanks, yes, I will try to describe the idea better. Using one instance per voice would take too much resources, specially when using low-buffers. Imagine 16 calls to the plugin process, and having 8 modules been called. Its just too much calls. So the idea is to call it once, and the process will handle each voice in a stereo output, which is fast and easy to handle. The following call can help getting a pointer to a data structure to be used to send voice-based modulation parameters in a faster way. File juce\_AudioPluginInstance -\> virtual void\* getPlatformSpecificData() There´s still a lot to be done, so I´m just trying to think a few things before I spend days and weeks working on something that wouldn´t work. :oops: Wk ---
**Author:** ![chkn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/forum.juce.com/chkn/32/3862_2.png) [@chkn](https://forum.juce.com/u/chkn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/5 "2013-06-14T13:51:37Z")
[quote]Using one instance per voice would take too much resources, specially when using low-buffers. Imagine 16 calls to the plugin process, and having 8 modules been called. Its just too much calls. So the idea is to call it once, and the process will handle each voice in a stereo output, which is fast and easy to handle. [/quote] well you mentioned [quote] “The problem is polyphonic parameters.” [/quote] Thats why i give you this answer and > [@](#): > > Imagine 16 calls to the plugin process, and having 8 modules been called. Did you measure it? In proportion what an additional audio-output costs, an additional callback is nothing And how do you handle the polyphony, in the end you have to call different methods too, so i can see here no downside. > [@](#): > > File juce\_AudioPluginInstance → virtual void\* getPlatformSpecificData() it looks you want to make things more complicated, but i only can give you an advise, try to simplify. Also to me it looks not sensible, to use a existing standard (like VST) , and then modify it… ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/6 "2013-06-14T15:16:58Z")
Good points, thanks bud, I will simplify things up. :oops: ---
**Author:** ![otristan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f0a364/32.png) [@otristan](https://forum.juce.com/u/otristan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/7 "2013-06-14T15:59:58Z")
[http://www.synthedit.com/](http://www.synthedit.com/) and [http://www.synthedit.com/software-development-kit/](http://www.synthedit.com/software-development-kit/) ? ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/8 "2013-06-14T16:02:37Z")
Yes, I know SE, but my idea is to make something different, but I will take a look at their SDK, good idea, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/9 "2013-06-14T18:58:03Z")
Ok, using a single VST instance per voice does make sense, specially since it would simply the code a lot and make things easier indeed. Plus, adding more voices would just mean allocate more instances, and not have to redo a complete module. :oops: The VSTs would be GUIless, as things will be handle by the main host via XML configurations along the VST file. ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/10 "2013-06-16T18:02:53Z")
Here´s most of what´s going on in terms of projects: [http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5390860](http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5390860) Now, since I plan on just using the VST format, I wonder if there´s a way to make VSTs that can´t be scanned by Hosts, or gets ignored somehow, but that I could load from my code. On Windows I can rename the .dll files to something else like .wmod, but what about MAC and Linux? I will investigate a bit more, but any advice would be appreciated, before I paint myself into a corner. :mrgreen: ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/11 "2013-08-01T23:17:33Z")
Ok, creating my own VST file that gets a different name structure wasn´t so hard. ` modulesLoaderPlugDesc.pluginFormatName = "vst"; modulesLoaderErrorMessage = String::empty; modulesLoader = new AudioPluginFormatManager(); wk4000Format = new wusik4000Module(); modulesLoader->addFormat(wk4000Format);` [code]class wusik4000Module : public VSTPluginFormat { bool fileMightContainThisPluginType(const String& fileOrIdentifier) { const File f(fileOrIdentifier); #if JUCE\_MAC if (f.isDirectory() && f.hasFileExtension(".w4kmodule")) return true; #if JUCE\_PPC FSRef fileRef; if (makeFSRefFromPath(&fileRef, f.getFullPathName())) { const short resFileId = FSOpenResFile(&fileRef, fsRdPerm); ``` if (resFileId != -1) { const int numEffects = Count1Resources('aEff'); CloseResFile(resFileId); if (numEffects > 0) return true; } } ``` #endif ``` return false; ``` #elif JUCE\_WINDOWS return f.existsAsFile() && f.hasFileExtension(".w4kmodule"); #elif JUCE\_LINUX return f.existsAsFile() && f.hasFileExtension(".w4kmodule"); #endif } };[/code] ---
**Author:** ![williamk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@williamk](https://forum.juce.com/u/williamk)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://forum.juce.com/t/modular-design-any-ideas-on-how-to-handle-modules/10602/12 "2013-08-01T23:18:44Z")
One question, will I be able to name my MAC VST w4kmodule instead of vst? (I don´t have much experience with MAC files)