Anyone interested in developing free and open-source plugins?

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Hi everybody!

I would like to be involved in releasing good open-source and free plugins.
Anyone interested?

I’ve been making music for the last 30+ years and from time to time I see some plugins that could really benefit from some improvements (both in terms of UI/UX and their performance) and it’s really hard to get to the company’s development team and explain why certain things could be improved. Then their list of bug fixes, new features, etc, is probably too extensive and with small teams, it’s not always possible to do everything.

I believe that having good plugins as free and open source is beneficial for most people and allows for new ideas and improvements that a small team wouldn’t be able to handle.

When it comes to free plugins, I believe we can all agree that unfortunately, most of the time, they either sound “ok” or they look bad (I truly believe that the GUI is super important and I think that some free plugins are created 100% by the developers including the GUI, and as good as a plugin can be made, the GUI is not always the best, making it less appealing). Without trying to sound too harsh: developers should develop, designers should design. And both areas should be the best they can be, which is something I think misses when it comes to most free plugins, and it’s a shame, because sometimes small improvements could really make a huge difference and everyone would win.

That being said, I’m not a developer myself, but as I said, I have an extensive experience with music, working with plugins, studied UI/UX, I’m constantly reading and studying about marketing and branding, etc.
My main contribution would be with ideas for plugins, managing the products, working on the UI/UX side of it, being able to extensively test the plugins (at least when it comes to the macOS versions) then being responsible for promoting them online and offline.

If anyone is interested, please let me know. Would love to talk more about it and share some ideas. Let’s build something great for everyone! :muscle:

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there we go again…

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Could you clarify? I’m interested in knowing what you mean

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I think they’re probably referring to how it’s quite common to get requests for development without compensation.

In terms of developer-designed open-source plugins, I made a simulation of my drum kit you can find here, along with the source code:

I have half a mind to “abstract” it a bit so that other can more easily drag their samples in.

On the topic of OSS, it’s worthy of noting that as far as I understand JUCE’s licensing, it’s fairly common for it to be distributed GPLv3, meaning that it’s mandatory to distribute the source code with the compiled product.

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Lack of ideas is rarely the problem.
And at the end of the day, the developer has to eat as well.
It seems it’s beneficial to most people, except for them?

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Regularly there are posts proposing some similar kind of deal, where one party brings an idea, or some exposure, while the other party (the developer) is expected to handle the whole plugin development and maintenance. This usually comes from a total ignorance of the huge investment required in terms of money and work to produce even the simplest plugin.

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Also, without trying to sound too harsh: Do you really think, someone wants to make plugins without a musical background? We all are musican, too. If you want to make plugins, learn all that stuff and make one. And if you want someone that help with that, you should have something in your bag to show. To come with nothing and ask for help is not the way to go.

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I will try to answer all the topics you guys mentioned.

When I say “open source” I’m not just talking about having the code available for others to use. What I mean is that the plugins we release are open for others to contribute to make them better (and of course, if they want to use the code themselves, that’s also available).

I understand that there’s no shortage when it comes to ideas. What I think is the “issue” is that the execution and presentation of an idea goes beyond having “an” idea, but more about having “the” idea.
Example: just because there’s hundreds of compressors out there, that doesn’t stop companies and individual developers to create a new compressor. So in that case my question is: what’s the purpose of having “ideas” if then they bring nothing unique and new to the table? Yes, some plugins are free, but why would I want another synth that does what they all pretty much do, along with a GUI that looks bad?

When a developer puts a free plugin out there, isn’t this the same issue? The difference seems to be that in one scenario they are putting out their plugin, where they have to do all the work (including GUI, promo, etc), whereas here the goal is that a lot of people can contribute to building something else.

I see a lot of developers here on the forum, for example, working on projects just so they can learn. Or just so they can test a piece of code. Of just because they like to spend their free time working on something new. So why not spending that time building with other people? I believe this is beneficial as well. And if it’s not, no one has to spend their time there.
When you come to the forum and help someone else, what are your benefits, personally? Aren’t you spending your time without getting paid?
I help other people in some forums as well. I don’t get paid.
When I see that I have free time and I’m interesting in being involved in something for other people, I do it. I’m the one managing my time and work.
This applies to what I’m trying to accomplish. Whoever is interested, great. And those who are not, also ok.

Am I being compensated for working on this? No. I’m contributing with what I have. My knowledge, my time, my ideas, my testing, etc. I wish I could develop plugins myself, but I can’t. My job is as a musician and producer. I have ideas and I present them. If someone wants to be a part of it, that’s great. If not, totally fine. I’m pointing a gun to anyone’s head, right?

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I’m not saying developers don’t have that background. What I mean is that there’s a difference between making music occasionally, which some people who are developers do, and someone who has to use plugins and hardware every single day as their job. That brings a different perspective. And sometimes most of the issues I encounter with plugins (paid or free) is that it’s clear that whoever is developing them, don’t use the tools on a daily basis. And this is not just me saying. I see it in forums all the time people pointing out things that should be implemented since day 1. Let me give you a clear example that I see all the time:
It makes no sense that plugins don’t have a “previous” and “next” buttons to load presets and/or samples. Yet, I see it, more often than not, plugins that rely on clicking menus to load those. If you work on music every day, you know that that workflow is bad UX.

So if I apply that same mindset, only cooks can open restaurants? Only people who can build cars can start a car company? Only pilots can start a new airline?

I think you are misunderstanding my goal. I’m not asking for help in terms of “hey, build MY plugin”. My goal is to have everything available online for people to contribute and build it together. I don’t necessarily own anything. If it’s free, I won’t even get paid either. So I don’t fully understand your point…

Since plugins are not just the development side of it, I have things in my bag that other people don’t. If all it takes is a developer to make great plugins, then why aren’t all developers making their own plugins and getting rich? Why do they work for others, for other people’s ideas? That’s because everything is important. The code, the GUI, the marketing strategy, the product management, the testing, the support team, etc. A plugin is not just the code…

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To help you to to understand the subtext, just 14 days ago we had the same proposal, just the OP then had a bit of a bad attitude, so I am grateful you approach the community in a good spirit, so welcome here.

It is right, we don’t get compensated here. We help each other because we remember our struggles starting out. And we share our woes and ask others for help to build a common experience.

This forum is not for a living. But we do have to make a living.

Most of us are filled with ideas and wish they had the funds to concentrate on their ideas.

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You’ll find most developers in this forum to be extremely kind and helpful, as long as you don’t come up with “anyway, how hard can it be to create a plugin?..” :smile:

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I consider myself both. Having developed plugins and used them professionally over a very long time.
All I can say is that, while someone that uses them daily does give you a good idea about what is important UX wise (makes for a great beta tester). You would be surprised how many different professionals have different UX workflows.
It does seem like you do however lack the knowledge about developing to judge why these decisions are sometimes made and also the costs (in time, thus money) of simple looking features.
Your post also centered around them being free. Which makes it even harder to invest said time and money.
Participating in open source projects is great way of learning and giving to the community at the same time.
Might I perhaps suggests you follow your own advice and develop a ‘simple’ plugin?
This will give you great insight to what is required.

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They do, just the “getting rich” part is what I would love insights. The market is pretty saturated…

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I totally understand that and I appreciate that you can see beyond what happens once in a while. My genuine goal is to build something that I believe is great. As I said, I don’t think people are short on ideas. But again, if ideas are not the problem, and if developers have the way to get to the finished product, but they don’t, doesn’t that prove that the most important part of a plugin is not necessarily the idea and the coding? It’s the sum of the parts, right? If CocaCola is already so famous, why are they still spending millions on advertisement? On new ideas? On a new can/bottle? etc…

A product is a living thing. It’s not just “ok, here’s the code, I’m done…” After the plugin is developed, then it needs to be out there, people need to deal with bug reports, with customers, with feedback, etc.

Exactly. That’s why I go to forums myself. If I already know this and that, why would I spend my time there, if not only for sharing it with others? And the interesting thing is: in the process, sometimes I learn something new as well. Which I would assume could happen when being involved in plugins that anyone can contribute to. So it’s not “my” plugin, it’s a plugin that one way or another, belongs to whoever contributes to it.

But now I ask: if a developer spends 10 hours working on test projects so they can learn something they are trying to learn, or solve a problem, etc, how would that be different from going to GiHub checking the issues that others have pointed out and then contributing to solving that issue? Wouldn’t that be a learning process? Wouldn’t that be beneficial as well?
For example, as a drummer, if I see someone trying to build a large, free, sample library that anyone can have access to and I can offer a few of my own takes, why wouldn’t I? Even if I won’t use it myself, I don’t mind contributing. That doesn’t mean I will spend 10 hours a day for the next year working for that library. I contribute whenever I want and can.

To be honest, from what I see quite often, the issue is not ideas, but sometimes it’s also not funds. It’s the lack of initiative (which is what I’m trying to get from this post). People immediately say “no” and find all the reasons to say no. Again, this is not a full time job. This is not “my” plugin. If you have 5 minutes today and can fix a bug and can only contribute 6 months from now, all good. We contribute with what we have and what we want to contribute with.

Trust me, the funds will come when ideas are great. When I see developers offering great plugins for free or even for super cheap, I always feel completed to pay more. If the ideas always stay in a folder, trust me, there will never be funds. As someone once told me: you know the best place to find ideas? In the cemetery…

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I think, a good step in the right direction would be, to just design your ideas, get the UI design finished etc. and when you than ask around for developers, they know you already put in 40-50 maybe more hours of work into making this an open source reality.

You could also start by writing posts/guides on how to do good UI/UX design for plugins, and built a library of assets for everyone open source.

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I don’t really think that and let me explain why: I’m not a developer, but I worked with HMTL, CSS, and a tiny little bit of JavaScript in the past. I know that what seems “obvious and fast” is super hard. I totally get that.

And my goal is not to make it look like it’s easy, but to actually make people feel that their work towards a final product is valuable. Instead of spending hours and hours working on a new compressor that maybe no one will use, why not being a part of something that others are also a part of? Seeing an idea take shape and growing and making a real difference. Making a good plugin, that’s free, that looks good, that has good customer support, that it’s well designed (both the code and UI/UX), I would guess that that alone is a good motivation for people to spend 5 minutes here and there, even if it’s “just” adding a comma that was probably causing the bug. If it’s 5 minutes or 50 hours, everyone contributes the way they want.

To be honest, all I want is to being able to be part of something that I believe can make a difference. That’s all. If I wanted to be rich with this, I could just pay someone and get the money from sales, right? But I get my money from my work as a musician and producer. That’s all. Everything else, I feel like it’s my contribution for all the years of others helping me out as well, with free samples, plugins, forums, etc.

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Agreed. This is a great approach to convince people you are serious and you are able to contribute in the other areas you mention. Start a GitHub repo, put up designs, mockups, sketches, Max or Pd prototypes, sounds and samples.

Build out tasks and learn as you go there. Then see who bites!

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Sorry, there are plenty of open source projects out there, if you want to make a difference, contribute to that. But I don’t really get, what you want from us?

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That might be the problem and why these posts are majorly disliked: you do UI/UX design and stuff in your free-time. We get our food from developing plugins. Most of us are probably musicians in our free time. If I want to do more developing after my ~50 hour week, I’m getting paid for that.

I think in general, for unpaid developer work, you are looking at the wrong place, namely a bunch of professional developers.

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I totally get that. We all have different workflows. The goal when designing a product is to try to appeal to as much people as possible. Sometimes the smallest detail can take 100 hours, but that doesn’t mean it’s not important. Even if it’s. “just” an arrow to load a sample. If it makes the product good, then it’s worth the time and work.

My question is always this: does my idea make the product worse, regardless of the person’s workflow? If not, then it’s a good investment of time.
If I would ask you: would you rather click a button to load a sample or click “File > Load > go to the folder with the sample > click the sample > click Load”?
Things like this, is what I mean that sometimes it’s too obvious for people to not spend whatever time is necessary to make it work. Because from there, when the customer has a great product and a great experience with the “company” itself, it’s like a snowball effect.

I don’t know about developing, for sure. But I know that “simple” for the user, doesn’t always (or rarely) mean easy/fast for the developer. But should we always focus on what’s fast and easy?
Sometimes the best plugins are the ones that don’t add a lot of complex stuff, but the details make a huge difference. At least from my point of view. I need plugins that do what they are supposed to do. If I’m constantly struggling with the plugin’s workflow, then I try to find something else.

Let me give you an example of a plugin that has an issue that I don’t even understand why it’s there and why, after like a year of me reporting it, it’s still not fixed:
ADSR’s Sample Manager.
The plugin comes with an envelope so you can shape the sample. So now you’re working on a sample, for example a kick, and make it short, because it fits the song you’re working with.
Cool.
Now you open an old song that used that same sample. Guess what: the envelope for that sample is now the one you used on that new song… does that make any sense at all? No. Because that just makes the envelope completely useless.

See how workflows can be indeed be different, but some things are basic and universal?