New licensing options

The important question here I think is how long do you think it will take to get to Juce 5?

Thanks for the reply. I don't wish to seem unfair and understand you are investing time and effort in developing the platform. I guess I'm just a bit frustrated. Personally, I don't really need any features of 4 currently. I'd even be happy if I could still buy a 3 license and upgrade to 4 in the future if needed. Seems like there are no options for this tho. 

As echoed in other responses below, maybe charging full price for your first platform and then %ages for additional platforms would be more reasonable rather than 100% for each platform.

for me, I'm doing mainly midi stuff at the moment and would be using Juce to ease cross compilation efforts for graphics etc.  Maybe you've hit the nail on the head with the points about real time audio and that Juce isn't really the correct platform as I'll not be taking advantage of these features.

I agree with onar3d.

For a casual plug-in developer that wants to test the market with a closed source product before investing to much, I think Juce have suddenly become less attractive. Which is a pity beacuse it's such a great product and certainly worth much more spread, something I don't think the new pricing policy will give it. Like suggested, I think there's room for additional license types; alongside the new one, apparently aimed at big companies with need for premium bug support and ditto feature requests, there ought to be room for a license type for non (or low) commercial companies or persons with hobby projects that don't have the need for projucers or premium support, but still don't want to go open source.

What about an additional license type aimed at non-commercial but closed source projects including all platforms and more in line with the previous price tag of £699? Then I think you would keep the indie developers but still get the money from the bigger companies.

wholeheartedly agree with this

I just want to echo dissapointment at the price increase. I have also been working for over a year on a project, evenings and weekends, and have made some small contributions to JUCE and Introjucer. I had been holding out buying a licence until my app was ready for beta testing. I am planning desktop, iOS and Android releases. £699 is a lot of money for me right now, but $3000 is an unwelcome surprise... even $147.00 per month to have my app on both Google Play and the App Store is not feasible for an app that may not bring in that much per month! 

It almost takes the attraction out of writing cross-platform apps - If this license model had been in place before I started development, I may well have decided to write each version using native mobile API's instead of going the cross-platform route with JUCE... 

Surely a cheaper option for indie developers would attract more licences and possibly balance out income for ROLI from JUCE?

Having said that I'm excited to try out Projucer. How long is the trial for?  

What about introducing the new pricing model at the summit? Or giving a flash "sale" on the new price for the next week? Thus allowing people that are actively involved in projects that may have budgeted on the old pricing model to have a chance to purchase a license immediately before the new pricing structure comes into effect...?

Or something along these lines... Although I still think multiple levels of license may also be a good thing in the long term...

I'm joining the voices of the independant developer, who I may incorrectly perceive to be the bulk of the JUCE users. This pricing scheme has me questioining my 6 year commitment using JUCE. I would love a more affordable price that does not include the Projucer, or the improved support, etc. 

So how would this work if multiple developers are working on one project? Do you need a license for every one of them? Or is one license enough (assuming they won't spend a lot of time running the ProJucer)? And what about the build server?

--
Roeland

Since we're on a developer forum this isn't too much off topic:

Basically this is a prime example of what I've seen that many writings on software pricing say you should avoid: suddent large price hikes on incremental product updates. Because these inevitably get reactions from clients.

The advice I've seen on how to hike prices: add features and charge extra for these. Add services and charge for these. But, if you've set a price, suddenly hiking it for an incremental update of what is basically the same software, will have clients feel cheated.

Simple question: on the same product (i.e. releasing closed source software on desktop and mobile - skip projucer, red-carpet support, etc), have you suddenly made JUCE three times better?

Let me rhetorically argue here hat you haven't. Instead, you have removed a product from the market completely (closed source on desktop and mobile). And introduced an entirely new one which costs three times as much, i.e. the projucer and red-carpet bundle.

But then to existing clients of the previous product (and I count people with existing unreleased codebases and no purchased license as such), you suddenly tell that the product they had invested in (closed source on desktop and mobile), has now disappeared.

That's bound to get reactions, no?

My two amateur MBA cents.

I agree with these sentiments and the fact that a 3 fold price increase sets a worrying precedent.

At this juncture I would be perfectly happy to be able to buy a 3 license, deploy my software and if successful and I wish to take on board the new features of 4, upgrade in the future.

As a poor lonesome cowboy indie developer passionate about digital instrument creation, I totally agree with leehu, onar3d, oxxyyd, adamski.

I worked alone for over a year on a side project (each evening after my "food work" and most weekends).

I imagined myself laboriously saving the price of the V3 license, in order to publish a software and gain a small reward for that work.

That plan seems going down the drain.
 

My previous post on this topic has been deleted.  Looks like people at Roli may be deleting forum postings?

I contacted Jules and JB at Roli in September 2015 to ask about purchasing a license.  Now I've been told by JB@ROLI tonight that I'm not allowed to directly quote on the forum what Roli says to developers since all their communication is protected by some legal disclosure they automatically append to the bottom of their e-mails, but to paraphrase, my replies from JB at the time was definitely that I should wait to purchase the license until October when v4 is out.

This forum thread makes it look like the price has gone up quite a lot. It also makes it look like it now costs per platform. For many of us weekend and evening developers (is it 3am here, and like many of you I'm trying to get work done!) working on side projects with the hope to maybe one day make $1 on the side, I hope that isn't the case.  However, the license page http://www.juce.com/get-juce is incredibly light on details and I don't have a ROLI account to check on the details.  For example, the $999 reference doesn't even state the currency.  I think ROLI is in England somewhere, so I'm confused as to the meaning of $.  Not £?  Not ...damn, my old Canadian keyboard doesn't have the Euro symbol.

Regardless, I think there are several problems:

  1. Deletion of critical posts on the forum is worrysome
  2. Telling people to censor posts on hot button topics
  3. Telling people to wait a month or two before buying a license, when I assume they knew the price was about to go up
  4. Significant price hikes
  5. Cross platform library that suddenly requires payment per platform

ROLI, please don't delete my post again.  :(

Wow, that was a surprise to click through to the purchase page to find out that it's now $2997 per seat, when it previously was £699 for unlimited seats...

OK, so in real-world terms, this isn't a huge price to pay for a mature set of very good software tools. 

However, not giving prior warning is inexcusable! If I was a sole developer who had budgeted on buying a V3 license I would be furious. There should have been a "here's your last chance to buy a V3-only license" before the option became V4 only. If ever a software community deserved that, it's this one. 

Cross platform library that suddenly requires payment per platform

that.


Anyway, what are the Upgrade prices to the Professional license?
 - for someone that has a v3 ?
 - for someone that has a v3 that was including v4.x?
 - what will be the upgrade price from an indie license to a professional one?


This is not something I would usually complain about, but the odd licensing options are making me rethink the need for JUCE.  That is sad after observing Jules take such good care of the codebase and users over the past half year or so.

 

Consider this: http://www.juce.com/forum/topic/audiosamplebuffer-double-support

New DSP stuff was basically the only thing I was looking forward to for V4's release. Since there have been more requests surrounding DSP, mostly better a graph and 64bit audio support, I'm surprised that wasn't done prior to an OSC module.

FWIW we do have a mostly-finished DSP module that we considered releasing, we're just holding it back because we wanted to refactor a few aspects of it before we're satisfied that it's ready for prime-time.

"Finally, JUCE 4 has a new subscription model, so you can choose to pay per month, starting at $49. And until you release a commercial product on the market, you don't have to pay anything and can use the source code as you please (within the limits of the GPL). "

Are these two sentences related? I mean, can I pay $49 (+12 month engagement) and right away release a commercial, closed-source product with no extra cost? Or do I have to acquire a $999 licence anyway prior to the product release?

I can answer that, it's nothing new:

The GPL license states, among other things, that software that you release, has to be accompanied with source code.

But, as long as you do not release anything, you can thus use JUCE without paying anything.

But you will need to purchase a license, either subscription OR fixed price, for the platforms you intend to release, before releasing closed source software.

And apparently during the time that you develop but do not release, you cannot use the Projucers projuicy features, only the old introjucer bits, unless you hold a license.

I'll launch many plugins made with juce next year for mac and windows...

If I paid $999 for the desktop version.  

  1. I need to pay for each plugin?
  2. Can I use forever Juce 4.x?
  3. Can I use a new 4.x version from github?
  4. Can I make my own changes to the lib?

Thanks!