The emperor wears no clothes


#1

juce is a very brilliant gui framework i used it for a month approximately a year ago.There was a person writing a ‘very’ small tutorial for it.Nowadays i turned back .Guess what happened ? this very small tutorial even does not exist.
I am neither blaming jules nor any member of community…But as we all know one of the powerful sides of a toolkit(for gui or any part of programming) is the easiness of using/Learning.JUCE LACKS ABOUT THAT.There is no proper book / complete tutorial.That is the main drawback of juce that is preventing it from being used by alot of programmer.Yes it is easy to use …yes function names are clear …But you as well as i know something is missing…When a programmer wants to learn a toolkit,it uses books …complete books .s/he does not wastes much time on forums or in .chm’s.These are for exceptional cases that you could’nt implement something…These are for consulting ,for help.NOT FOR LEARNİNG A TOOLKİT.I AM GREATLY DISAAPPOINTED THAT I STILL CAN NOT HAVE A COMPLETE BOOK ABOUT THAT GUI TOOLKIT.MOREOVER, JULES ( FEARLESS LEADER:) YOU SHOULD NOT CHANGE THE FUNCTION NAMES AND INFRASTUCTURE OF JUCE.Thus you prevent a written document to become obsolote.
jules or Someone else must take this job :slight_smile: WE NEED A COMPLETE BOOK.Juce is getting bigger if we want it to become a main choice for C++ Gui application programming.We should even stop developing it anymore and start writing FULL BOOKS/DOCUMENTS about it…


#2

Erm… thanks for the rant…?


#3

That is indeed quite some rant.

Here are a few pieces of information:

[1] I wrote the tutorial
[2] I was doing a full time university course at the time, and had to put it on hold
[3] When my course had finished, Juce had indeed evolved considerably, requiring an almost complete rewrite of the tutorial
[4] The guy who ran the audioshot service (my web host) got very ill and had to close down his hosting facilities - thus my site is now completely dead. That means not only the tutorial, but all my plugins and stuff that I had available are gone from the net too.

Hopefully soon I’ll get a new hosting plan sorted and will have my site back up. And hopefully i get a chance to write the tutorial proper.

[Incidentally it has always been a goal of mine to make a full ‘book’ for Juce, but as you’ve clearly noticed it does change at times. Whilst this is obviously annoying, it’s FAR more annoying for me and people who find an out of date tutorial than it is to anyone actually using Juce; the changes are always for the better, and often fairly trivial to change in your own code - whereas it could result in large chunks of a book being rewritten. Thus, the changes are just a part of the system, and we should be grateful that Jules is on the case to give us the best he can.]


#4

No offense…So be it ,let me be the bad guy.But i should remind you that whatever the hitches are ,we still can’t offer a OFFICIAL JUCE BOOK,COMPLETE TUTORIAL for a newbie.
haydnx come on, i also read your tutorial .It was a good job (thank you for that).But it is not even more than 100 pages.I may be a chatty but what i am saying is not a rant.IT IS A PROBLEM.


#5

No, it really is a rant! Some of the classic signs of a forum rant are:

  • use of capital letters
  • bad punctuation that becomes gradually more bizarre
  • repeating the same things over and over again
  • having a user name that makes the same point yet again
  • saying that you’re not ranting…

Your point is taken! You could have just said “is there any chance of a book about juce coming out any time soon?”. This would have saved you quite a lot of typing, and we’d have all understood just as clearly.

The simple answer is that I’ve no time to write a book about it - why not have a go yourself if it’s such an issue? (But if you do, please take some punctuation classes first!)


#6

sorry for that…


#7

haydxn, if you are in need of some space, PM me.


#8

[quote=“weneedtutorial”]No offense…So be it ,let me be the bad guy.But i should remind you that whatever the hitches are ,we still can’t offer a OFFICIAL JUCE BOOK,COMPLETE TUTORIAL for a newbie.
haydnx come on, i also read your tutorial .It was a good job (thank you for that).But it is not even more than 100 pages.I may be a chatty but what i am saying is not a rant.IT IS A PROBLEM.[/quote]

I had the same problem a few months ago. But unlike you, I resisted the urge to post a flaming post on the message board. :wink:

And lucky for you, and me too at the time, there wasn’t much work needed to make to tutorial work. And even luckier for you, I kept the modified files! :slight_smile:
http://www.notam02.no/~kjetism/testing.tar.gz


#9

There is one easy way: Let the documentation write itself!

By setting up a Wiki on the docs page for Juce, I’m sure there are a lot of jucers around who are willing to contribute to such an effort.


#10

i remember that someone set it up some times ago… but this has never take fly ! (people unwill to contribute) i think that wiki is down now…


#11

As a programmer just becoming familiar with the JUCE classes, I think a Wiki would be very helpful. To me, the ideal Wiki would reflect the info in the documentation already included with JUCE (tip of the hat to Jules!) and most importantly, provide a short example of how to use a method. IMHO, one of the most useful things to a new JUCE user (me) is the availability of working example code. Obviously, all of this could take a lot of work… but I feel it’s worth mentioning.

With regard to the regular changes to the JUCE framework: I wonder if there is a simple way to automagically flag a class in a Wiki as having changed when an update to the library is released. If this were the case, then a capable (and motivated) developer would be able to see that the implementation of a class had changed and make any necessary updates/corrections to the wiki. Alternatively, a new user would have a way to recognize that the documentation or example they are looking at has changed and may not reflect the current implementation (at which point they can go to the .chm documentation or the JUCE forums).

This, of course, still leaves a Wiki reliant upon motivated JUCE users for content and correction…


#12