We may track the IP addresses associated with their use of the Applications using JUCE


#1

What’s this?

You agree to give notice to the end-users of your Applications that we may track the IP addresses associated with their use of the Applications using JUCE solely for our internal purposes in providing JUCE, unless you are a paying JUCE customer and opt-out of such tracking.


#2

Strongly oppose this. I feel like the splash screen is a fair compromise if you’re uneasy opening the source, but having to enforce telemetry on users for a simple free plugin will put many people off what you offer.


#3

Yes and in Android we are required to provide a Privacy Policy, so what do we say?

“We use this framework for free but this other company tracks you and we have no idea why?”

You might want to write a whole post about this because it’s very legal oriented.

It’s the IP addresses that is weird, why IPs? Is this the only way you can identify a computer/mobile device and tie the actual information you are collecting to?


#4

I guess, they are just interested on how many devices they run.

However, I really dislike that idea, I think it even creates a legal conflict, because if the end user agrees to give away his data, the agreement has to exist between the user and the data collector, i.e. an extra agreement needs to be made between the end user and JCUE. But IANAL, and that was in germany back then…

That should be really more prominently communicated. I don’t like learning about spyware in my product from a forum post. (I would not go the personal path with my products anyway, but as a matter of principle…)


#5

I haven’t seen any code yet on github that actually connects to roli servers, but i’m still looking.

possible connections:
https://github.com/WeAreROLI/JUCE/blob/03de7b468f35dd8496f8984f9701db619670bddd/extras/Projucer/Source/Licenses/jucer_LicenseThread.h#L167

https://github.com/WeAreROLI/JUCE/blob/03de7b468f35dd8496f8984f9701db619670bddd/extras/Projucer/Source/Application/jucer_AutoUpdater.cpp#L490

https://github.com/WeAreROLI/JUCE/blob/03de7b468f35dd8496f8984f9701db619670bddd/modules/juce_gui_basics/misc/juce_JUCESplashScreen.cpp#L343


#6

They are all not suspicous, the first two are in the Projucer, and the SplashScreen only reacts, if it is clicked. Fair enough. Probably that term in the T&Cs was for possible later use. So @ROLI, if you are undecided, if you want to make use of that option, please don’t do that… And when you start doing that, please give good visible notice.

EDIT: here the data is collected, goes to google analytics:


What Info does producer collect?
#7

Hmm, this seriously makes me think I should just hold off until I can just pay the license, I don’t like this at all. My apps I have up right now, I take pride in the fact there are no call homes, I hate call homes.

I know this in principle isn’t a call home but it’s still making a call every time they use the app, which these days, you could just call it a cookie jar call, but still.


#8

Just an aside, I read as much as I could in the license section about the differences and when a professional company goes to all the trouble to define EXACTLY what is in each license tier but fails to have this bullet point in the main feature grid, it really makes you think they know it’s a slippery slope, and they avoided it.

I’m not dishing JUCE or Roli at all because I plan on buying a license but it reminds me when Native Instruments did this with Maschine and such, they just “slipped” it in because they knew it would create controversy, but that isn’t even the same as this. This as the previous poster said is a two tiered privacy issue.


#9

Just noticed. I was astounded! can’t believe that!

Tell us, @Jules, this isn’t your idea… You are a live statue in my heart, I don’t want it collapsed…

BTW, if I buy an indie license, will you still track IPs (my own and my users’)?


#10

lol now that you posted that link to the actual code, I’d bet half of the users on here are just gonna comment that out or disable the DEFINE directly lol that’s the problem with open-source APIs that expect users to be honest regarding the license hahaha


#11

We are indeed starting to experiment with analytics, and aim to offer analytics as a service in the future.

We are tracking various info about the app and location, which will help understand better where JUCE-based apps are used, on which OS, which in turn will help us understand our users better and what to prioritise.

Users on the Personal or Education license will not be able to opt out of the analytics tracking, but Indie and Pro may subscribe voluntarily to it.

Another option to opt out, if you’re so inclined, is to use JUCE under the GPL license. As long as you release the code alongside the application, you can do what you want with it.

@matkatmusic, we do expect users to be honest :slight_smile:


#12

IP gives us the location and distinguishes users, so we can have an idea of how many people use the app and where they’re based.


#13

Can I strongly suggest you reconsider this - you will find this to be a widely disliked policy that could affect the popularity of JUCE; I understand that the data collected is innocuous, but things like this are still largely seen as an undesirable and a shady feature of software, and to have to explain to your users that their data is being collected could definitely dis-incentivise some people downloading the products you offer. You don’t want to give JUCE a reputation for containing shady bloatware that doesn’t respect privacy, even if this is an unfair or hyperbolic characterization, it is what people will think. Why not provide data analytics as an option in the projucer setup, rather than force it?


#14

The best compromise is an opt-in option for the customer/user in the About dialog or on first start.

Rail


#15

So for an Android audio app, that means have a github repo with the full source?

As far as the IP and tracking, I understand we are in a different world, people mostly don’t care about tracking cookies but with native it’s more personal.

My suggestions and it’s just that is put it on the front page.

I will probably just use it personally and develop, then buy the license. I can’t agree to a two tiered tracking just because I am too cheap to invest in my next technology platform ATM. :wink:


#16

agreed, Rail, and others who feel it should be more prominently displayed. We’ll get back to you on that.


#17

Yes, GPL license means that you must distribute the source code alongside your app.


#18

fork?


#19

Why fork? The splash screen and Google analytics tracking can be disabled from being compiled with the GPL license by changing the #defines in AppConfig.h. (And this is allowed by the Juce license.)


#20

@Xenakios -

did you read my post?

why fork? is because removing these anti-features is becoming a real maintenance hassle to create any GPL program using JUCE