What's the earliest OS people are compiling for?


#1

For both Windows and Mac OSX. I’m wondering because I still get customers for WinXP & OSX 10.7

Some studio computers are rarely updated or even connected to the internet.

So I was wondering what people do? And does Juce even compile for anything older than 4 years?
Do I just compile for the latest and say, “F**k you poor musician types - get a job and upgrade everything to the latest!” - which is a pretty ugly way to behave.
I was just wondering what everybody thought about it?


No flock.cpp in VST SDK?
#2

Well, consider that Apple’s updates are free, many of Microsoft’s updates are free, and the cost of a modern computer (especially one that just needs to do audio stuff!) has gone down considerably in the last five years.

Re: poor musician types - many common “bread-and-butter” plugins/plugin bundles (Waves, Native Instruments, etc) cost as much as an entire Mac Mini or decent horsepower PC - so if they’re in the market to buy plugins then they can probably afford a decent computer to run them on.

IMO anyone still running WinXP or macOS 10.6 is likely too technically incompetent or stuck in old ways to update their entire OS - so why would they update your software or purchase it for their existing studio?

My philosophy is to just support whatever earliest OS will work without additional hacks to code designed to run on the latest OSes/platforms - something JUCE is great at supporting.


#3

Yeah, and anybody using a guitar is just so stuck in their ways! :smiley:
I mean ‘strings’! oh come on, what century is that from, man! :slight_smile:

Joking aside, asking composers running XP or MacOS 10.6 say they like using old plug-ins that have not been update because either the company has gone bust or has just left it alone. And Apple, in their wisdom disable them in an 'upgrade.'
Or perhaps it’s just a philosophy of 'if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.'
In the end of it all, it’s not about me, it’s about my customers an what they want…


#4

Win7 is 8 years old, and macOS 10.7 is 7 years old, so I’m not sure why you mention ‘anything older than 4 years’. Having said that, at some point there are diminishing returns on supporting out dated OS versions, and it’s a call you have to make on where that line is for yourself. Do those customers pay you to continue to support the old versions of the OS?


#5

OK, I’ll put it another way. What is oldest OSX can you compile Juce to with the new Xcode 9, with no historical frameworks?


#6

10.7 using the latest Xcode and C++11 or C++14

Rail


#7

Thanks, well that’s strange because the previous Xcode was only 10.8 compatible!
(I remember copying the old frameworks over to get 10.7 working.)


#8

I’m talking about Deployment Target

I’m using Xcode 8.2.1 with the 10.12 SDK, C++14 and the Deployment Target is 10.7

Rail


#9

Well… yeah… not on mine it wasn’t, it wouldn’t allow it. And yes I tried editing the ‘minimum’ allowed value. Oh well I’ll try again, thanks.
Anyway that’s at least one person going for an old OSX, what about Win?


#10

Windows 7 (32 & 64 bit) and OS X 10.9.

I’d love to drop 32 bit support for no other reason than the much slower compile times in VS.


#11

We still support macOS 10.6 at the moment, but are going to require 10.7 for our upcoming product (I think C++ lambdas, which are used by new JUCE now, don’t work with 10.6).
Iirc for 10.6+RTAS we use the 10.6 SDK for building the RTAS SDK but everything else uses the latest SDK.


#12

Thanks all for the replies. I should have asked before buying into Juce, I suppose. :slightly_smiling_face:
My last disaster was to copy Xcode somehwhere else on my system, then get a new one. But Apple hunted down every copy they could find and replaced it with the new one, so that was a nightmare because it had my old Apple SDKs in it, thank the gods for backup…


#13

#14

Wow, I didn’t think anyone was allowed to do that! Nice one.


#15

I know, it’s been up there for several years though.


#16

From a user POV - you’d find some XP , 10.6 users out there. but there are also writers using typewriters…

I think any developer who cares about their users should have a balanced equation seeing the ratio between amount of time it takes supporting older system vs the number of users using it.

Overall, currently for example, supporting 32-bit / 64-bit with Windows 7+ and 10.7+ is reasonable and still pretty straight forward to maintain.


#17

I disagree.
There are folks that transitioned from expensive mixing consoles to expensive computers with Avid hardware which is no longer supported on newer OSs. And the machine is a dedicated work machine not some personal laptop that they carry around put on stickers and play dota on, which they don’t because these folks are very busy. Why should they hurry to upgrade if everything works great? And they would get new software if it does something useful to them and it works for them.


#18

The question posed in the title is very misleading and can be easily misunderstood: you’re approaching the problem all wrong.

When you’re developing a product or service, you need to determine your target market. It’s great to have an idea, and even something working, but who is going to use it and how is it going to be successful?

Without lecturing too deeply as to what that entails, however you decide your target market will help you determine your lower/upper limits of the systems of the people you want using what you’ve made.

If it so happens that your target encompasses Windows XP, then great. Your stuff works and you maintain the tools for macOS 10.6? Awesome.

But if that’s not the case, be alright with not pleasing everybody and be alright with giving tough love. Just make your lines in the sand very clear for your current/potential users.


Tough love is fine but you’ll certainly lose users approaching them like that. :slight_smile:


#19

There are more Win 7 users out there than anything else, apparently. But that is no indication of numbers in studios. It’s easy to just believe that everybody is up to date but some people have been using the same computers for years. I’m not approaching anything ‘wrong,’ it was just a question. I’ve been selling plug-ins for over 12 years, and I get asked for them working on older OSs a lot, and it always surprises me. Now I’ve taken the leap into Juce, I was wondering how many I will let down, that’s all. From the great answers here, it turns out not that many. :slight_smile:


#20

JUCE contains its own std::function implementation which is used when targeting older versions of OS X (and the live build), so this shouldn’t be a problem.