I'm helping a friend learn while I learn too

[pokk]

Hey all

I just wanted to start this thread both to say hello and introduce myself to the community but also begin to share my story as it unfolds as a newbie to C++ and JUCE. I hope this might be useful for other newbies and help perhaps inspire or support them in their adventures learning this language and framework.

My friend (whom should also join soon) has almost zero programming experience, but has been making sounds and music for years, and myself who has been making sounds and music since I was 10 (I’m currently to be 44 this year, according to Google, wow I think I thought I was 42 haha) but have been employed as a coder (although more Frontend) for 11 years although have done freelance and personal projects for years before that.

I wouldn’t consider myself a programmer, and for years really struggled with the idea I was even a developer, I am probably happy to consider myself a coder, but ultimately I think this comes down to confidence and dealing with companies labelling me, which after a while, means as much as you might expect in the grand scheme of things.

At this point I (we) are going through the tutorial, and have just made some midi velocity messages send through and am now reading about the structure, which is probably the most helpful part so far.

I’d definitely say these tutorials could be clearer, they are not bad, but obviously could be improved, and I understand the community thinks similarly. I know how hard this is, so credit to those who wrote these, it’s way better than many and part of the reason I decided to learn in the first place, so kudos. I work a lot in Service Design and User Research so I personally wasn’t clear who these are written for and it only states “beginner”, which could mean a few things.

I wondered how often these are updated or is there a process by which they can be updated by the community? I don’t see this in Github JUCE · GitHub

I’m kinda of considering re-writing the initial tutorials myself as I go, which would both be helpful for me so I know I understand it correctly, but also for others after me as it seems like this will be super fun and keep me sane or insane as I learn React.

Anyway, hello and nice to be here, very exciting thinking ahead and what will be learned

M

[sudara]

Welcome!

@pokk

I wondered how often these are updated or is there a process by which they can be updated by the community?

I’ve wondered the same thing! It would be great if they could be contributed to.

I asked the JUCE team when I was new to the framework and recently again about contributing to docs. My understanding is that they don’t currently have the bandwidth to prioritize improving docs generally, as they are heads down on higher value items (the framework’s surface area is monstrous). But they will fix big things that are obviously broken.

They recently setup a CLA to technically allow community contributions to the main repo, which is a nice step. I opened a docs PR that fixes a few smaller problems to test the waters, but there’s not a functioning review process at the moment (that I know of).

Ideally, the community could take on some of the review burden, especially for docs/tutorials — which are particularly high value for people onboarding to the framework. I’m not sure if the JUCE team actually wants this, though, and it would take work to coordinate (bit of a Catch-22).

[pokk]

Thanks for such a nice welcome @sudara it’s nice to be here.

You make some good points there, a few did pop in my mind after posting.

I think i might attempt just writing some myself and making them available on Github and at least there is the opportunity to have them added to and improved upon by a community.

I find what is sometimes hard for a group to do due to various circumstances and priorities is easier for general communities and are often welcomed once happening. Worst case its just another resource which is no bad thing at all.

Great! Quite excited.

[sudara]

@pokk

I think i might attempt just writing some myself and making them available on Github

This sounds like a good idea!

@pokk

I find what is sometimes hard for a group to do due to various circumstances and priorities is easier for general communities and are often welcomed once happening. Worst case its just another resource which is no bad thing at al

Love this attitude. I’m trying to do the same on my blog.

One project I keep musing about: a docs site where people can add comments and clarifications on top of the “official” docs.

This forum is filled with what I consider to be “the actual JUCE documentation”: gotchas, examples of use, cautionary advice, when to use things, when not, what changed between versions, best practices. etc.

However, it requires a lot of digging to find things. It would be nice to have a community resource where people can comment directly on the API. Here’s an (old) example from another framework.

[nicolasdanet]

@sudara

However, it requires a lot of digging to find things.

IMHO it is something a newbie has to learn to. Is this possible to write a C++/DSP stuff without to be able to learn a lots of things by yourself? A good documentation is always better ; but sadly noboby have time to do it for free (in a long-term sustainable way). Even the C++ core guideline is not up-to-date and/or completed.

[sudara]

@nicolasdanet

IMHO it is something a newbie has to learn to.

Yes, I agree! Learning how to dig is necessary. I just meant to highlight that there’s a disproportionate amount of docs/examples/tips floating around the forum vs. in the docs. I’ve been a part of other frameworks where the community is empowered to contribute back and these sorts of things can end up in structured documentation (which is nicer).

@nicolasdanet

Is this possible to write a C++/DSP stuff without to be able to learn a lots of things by yourself?

C++/DSP/JUCE is definitely a tough learning curve. However it gets easier and faster every time that someone takes the time to explain what they’ve learned, improve documentation, make videos, etc. If I spend a week reading through and understanding juce_Component.cpp implementation details, I can save a lot of other people time. That’s the motivator for me!

[nicolasdanet]

You are 100% true. But it’s not fair when enthusiast people (like you) does the work. And lazy people consume all that without contribute back. Is that sharing works nowaday without a paid/sponsored community manager? I hope so ; but sorry i’m old and in a very bad mood today.

[sudara]

@nicolasdanet

But it’s not fair when enthusiast people (like you) does the work

looks for paycheck… No worries! It’s not only a one-way street. I would be doing most of this anyway (minus the polish) since it’s how I work. People like Josh often do end up in good positions due to the community work they put out. Plus it has sort of a cumulative effect — the more people contribute, the more people see that’s a useful route to go down, the better everything gets…

@nicolasdanet

i’m old and in a very bad mood today

I feel you. I’m old and not always this diplomatic

[pokk]

I personally don’t worry about people who just take. Sometimes people aren’t able to give for one reason or another, and I’d say being lazy is a valid reason. I definitely have days i feel more lazy than others, and have grumpy days, it’s all good.

I think that’s the point of giving for me, is to help those who can’t give or only want to take. I’d say it’s probably worse when you give and nobody wants it. “Here i made this to help” “nah thats alright mate, you keep it” hahaha.

Edit: you make a good point though of newbies not realising how important searching is and being involved in forums, maybe that’s something to put in a prerequisite. Nice.